Genetic factors can also increase health risks, but genetic discrimination in employment and insurance is illegal in the U.S. and many countries. This practice may lead many people to forego health insurance even though they may have to pay a fine under the ACA. Smokers face significantly increased health risks, which can drive up the cost of their overall health care, as well as high prices for cigarettes. The same with booze, and other things that costs the country money to fix. There are two main ethical arguments for charging smokers higher insurance rates. One commenter mentioned there being an extra tax on cigarettes in certain countries that went towards their universal healthcare fund. What do the smokers think? That is why we are $13 trillion in debt nobody wants to be responsible. Ms Ley also dismissed claims obese people and smokers could pay more for their private health insurance, but defended the government's right to ask "tough questions" about it given the private health insurance rebate cost it over $6 billion a year. To appreciate the solution, let me expand on the flaws in health insurance surcharges. If your home is large, on a beach, in an earthquake or hurricane zone you pay more. Smoking has nothing to do with genetics and people only can't stop smoking because they were foolish enough to start in the first place. Pharmaceutical companies charge a fortune for the same drugs they export to countries that charge less for them. So why can't people with bad health habits be considered high risks also. If you drive an expensive or exotic car you pay more for insurance. Many Online Journal readers feel strongly that smokers should pay higher insurance premiums than their non-smoking co-workers, and some say penalizing smoking shouldn't stop at health insurance. How many that do smoke get a physical on a yearl basis? Since it would be impossible, and unfair, to have exepmtions for all the possiblities of lifestyle choice or legitimate medical neccessity, charging more for the obese is a tough call. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. I would like to start this counter-debate by saying you see more drunk driving deaths than smoker deaths because news reporters report car accidents, not cancer Smoking increases health risks and should be banned in public places. Heres how to protect yourself from its side-effects. How would a company define "fat" or "smoker"? And its not guarenteed that all smokers will burden the health care system. Or somewhat young in age and more prone to colds than older folks? Rewarding criminals and people who have no will to be responsible for their lives is what is destroying our Country! However, theres no evidence that higher health insurance premiums encourage people to quit, according to the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation aimed at improving the health care system. The Insurance company shouldn't give you a hard time in achieving that goal either. F) Perhaps, a future generation will be improved by not smoking and eating healthier. What do people claim they do but in reality they dont? Last week, Dallas County in Texas joined the growing ranks of employers that charge employees who smoke a higher monthly health insurance premium than employees who don't light up. It never ends. Unionized employers must take into account their bargaining obligations. Radley Balko's alter ego "Randy" argues that they should in an AJC op-ed. Health care costs of smoking are expensive and smoking is reduced more to motivational determinants than to biological factors; the essay, therefore, recommends that smokers pay for their own health costs. Pepperell, MA. Of course they should pay more. I need sick insurance regardless if I deserved it or was born with a genetic flaw. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. yu hve people tht are nt big n hve mre medical problems than them.as for smoker yu no they read the warning n America is stubborn abt taken advice. Tax credits to help pay for health insurance are available to. The authors concluded thatreducing smoking and obesity will not save society health care costs. This is just one more shameful proposal. What if that person has a contagious disease? Jack, that may be the dumbest question I've ever heard. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. It's about time that we are made to be accountable for our actions. All this can be prevented, there is no excuse whatsoever for smoking and for remaining overweight and not actively trying to change. No JackThat`s just wrong!!!! Community rating is there to protect people who, through no fault of their own, through things they cant control like their age, that theyre not penalised, NIB Managing Director Mark Fitzgibbonsaid at the time. Everyone keeps complaining about the health care, but don't take efforts to eat correctly and they know they should! The stubborn presence of tobacco use is frustrating considering the plethora of studies that link it to so many debilitating diseases. Jack, I'm glad you brought that up. Private health insurance for smokers - Do they pay more? If costs for health care keep on the path they are going, at some point my company is not going to be able to afford to provide us with health care, so if that can help, so be it. Shame on you! With nearly 16 percent of Americans now uninsured, the rate has been rising for years as prices for prescription drugs and hospital care have escalated. They absolutely should pay more. A better, but less dramatic solution is to continue an all-out assault on both alcohol abuse and production of food with too much sugar through education, public service, health providers and organizations. The benchmark for all insurance underwriting is computed by an exposure to risk formula. Microenvironment May Predict Sustained MRD Negativity in Newly Diagnosed Myeloma, Promise of CTCs in Metastatic Breast Cancer Management. Yes, and those with alcohol related diseases. 88% of smokers began smoking before age 18. August 24, 2021. The Commonwealth Fund expects more states will customize their approach to tobacco rating as more evidence about the impact of tobacco surcharges emerges. It always seems people don't do something until it hits their pocketbook. More importantly, for the purposes of this post, when surcharges arose in 2014, there was a pretty steep decline in the percent of smokers who purchased insurance. thank Jack. Certainly not directly. Unlike smokers, I don't have a problem with overweight people but they are at greater risk for certain disorders and diseases. "These things in no way compare to the unnecessarily harmful effects of smoking on both the people smoking and the people around them who are also forced to suck up their toxic fumes," colleague #1 responds. Why would us healthier employees have to foot their hiking rate of insurance for them? Second, even if charging smokers higher insurance rates encourages them to stop smoking, reducing smoking may not save society any money. Besides, if you make obese people a political issue you will lose at the ballot box because most of are obese. smokers get the ass end of every stick, even though people do way stupider things that risk their lives. Severance, a popular Emmy Award-winning show streaming on Apple TV+, is a rich cultural artifact. Open a newChase Private ClientChecking account and get a $2000 bonus! On the Ground, Its More Complicated. If they spend more for health insurance, maybe they won't have enough funds for cigarettes or junk food!! Sure why not? They are considered high risks. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Another thing to keep in mind: although smoking does not affect your health insurance premiums at the moment, it is possible that the rules could change in future. Some view them as equivalents of nicotine chewing gum or nicotine skin patches, and others see the product as another form of tobacco use, as life insurers do. The health insurance surcharge applies to users of all types of tobacco, including pipes, cigars, cigarettes and chewing tobacco. Why stop at smokers and the obese. Whats a company secret you can share now that you dont What quietly went away without anyone noticing? First. Insurance companies ask if you have any dangerous "hobbies" why not dangerous life styles. Its also unclear what happens if you complete a required smoking cessation program at work but do not quit. Hey don't we export cigarettes and fast food franchises Shhhh! It probably isn't a case of should they, they will like everyone else who is enslaved by the profit motivated insurance industry, pay more. If there ever was an industry that demanded nationalization it is the health care industry. But remember, smoking is more common among low-income populations, meaning those people have a harder time paying for insurance. Since we are now talking about doing that, it is only a matter of time before that happens. Although most states allow the surcharge to be up to 50 percent, its not happening, she says. HELLO. Absolutely !! Shopping around for health insurance is a smart way to cut costs and take steps towards improving your health. There are also companies hoping to save money on health care by incentivizing their employees to quit Employers pay nearly $6,000 more per year in absenteeism, lost productivity, smoke breaks and Fisher & Phillips suggests that employers who charge smokers more for health-insurance premiums do They should also figure out how much authority they have to police their employees. There should be more places where only smokers can smoke freely. There are too many things that can cause one's life to be shortened. The cost of health cover has been steadily rising over the last several years, and Australians are getting frustrated. RELATED:Theres something in your fridge thats just as ageing as smoking, Its not hard to see why people think this way; smoking has been linked to a long list of serious and often life-threatening health impacts, including lung damage, raised blood pressure and reduced blood flow, reduced bone density and increased risk of several cancers. We should not discourage smokers from getting insurance. No Jack .That is not a solution.A better idea might be to stop the FDA from allowing food procesors from pouring high fructose corn syrup into everything we eat.First you fed us poison and then you blame us for being poisoned.You want less smokers ?stop all price supports to tobacco producers and cigarette companies.the price wil be out of reach. This is disgracefull question to ask abt fat people, sme hve reason to be tht way. Read Should Ethicists Be at the Table in Public Health Policy Deliberations? Some Liberal Democrat(s) in Washington stated that it's discriminasting against fat people and smokers, that's why we all have to pay. We're both fat, and we both smoke. The penalty for smoking will depend on where you live or work. Van Baal and colleagues compared the lifetime health care costs of three groups: smokers, obese individuals, and healthy individuals. Anti-cancer groups and the tobacco industry have effectively joined forces to prevent some of the new insurance exchanges from implementing a surcharge for smokers. People are already having to pay to much, and if you already have something such as diabetes you pay more.All I see is greed and another way to make people pay. If people can't be motivated to change their bad habits on their own, maybe higher health care costs will make them think twice about their choices. Furthermore, since most people who smoke are of lower income, this results in an additional barrier to coverage when they have to pay an extra premium to receive coverage. Offering health insurance is a choice employeers can make, so why should employeers have to to pay more for an employee who knowingly chose to live a unhealthy lifestyle? For those of us who must struggle in our writing to convey with clarity the complicated ideas we are driven to share, Wills gift for off-the-cuff eloquence was awe-inspiring. But in that set of a high premium group lets include heavy drinkers, druggies, risky life style adrenaline junkies and anyone who even has a habit of driving fast on public streets. I run and workout quite a bit and in physical shape, but according to Body Mass Index, I'm considered obese. However, until we do the same for alcoholics and drug users, it is unconstitutional. Why not Jack? $ + tax Here, in fact, is an estimate of how tobacco surcharges influence insurance enrollment rates among smokers and non-smokers. Risk does not mean something will happen but there is a chance something may. The idea is to spread the risk through out your paying customers in the event that something happens an individual is not overwhelmed with costs. Ethics Consult: Potentially Hasten Baby's Death to Ease Suffering? Once you start separating the herd you'll need to take out sky divers, surfers, race car drivers, anorexics, clumsy people, etc., etc., etc. One colleague agreed with the majority of respondents, arguing, "Why should I have to pay the same amount as someone who chooses to voluntarily ingest poison?". Corporate medical syndrome, anyone? If they are lazy and indulge themselves with bad food and refuse to change that! Generally speaking, healthcare costs are higher for smokers, and they often have higher rates of absences. Voluntary choices are made around individual smoking and eating habits and companies may likewise choose to acknowledge these habits as liabilities. I realize this is a difficult area to try to control as some activites are based on genetic predisposition, etc. Founded in 2010, CCI is the webs premier globalindependentnews source for compliance, ethics, risk and information security. Its about personal choices. These people should absolutely pay more for their healthcare. Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union? If higher insurance premiums gets there attention I am all for it. So if your reckless with your health then you should pay more, When will man move to his next level of consciousness and realize we're all in this together ? No. If quitting smoking was easy, everyone would do it, right? The Affordable Care Act allows just four factors to increase premiums: Age, family size, location and tobacco use. (to ideal) all in four months and I quit smoking in a day. You start slipping down a slippery slope when you single out select segments of the population. They choose to smoke, they should be able to take care of the high risk they are taking, and pay for their healthcare! Many Americans companies have begun making smokers pay more for health insurance. A study of 20,000 employees showed that smokers had more hospital visits per 1,000 (124 versus 76), had a longer average length of stay (6.5 versus 5 days) and made six more visits to health care facilities per year than non-smokers. Smokers do not currently pay more for health insurance premiums, due to Australia's community-rated health insurance system. Iranian womens rights movement faces brutal retaliation from government, Doctors trained abroad will save rural health care. What Scrub Color Should Surgeons Probably Avoid? That doesn't make any sense. There are several acceptable terms such as overweight. I don't think so. However, she says, as long as the program is correctly implemented and complies with federal and state laws, employers should have no concerns. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. I am sorry but if you are overweight or a tobacco user you are going to incur a greater risk and have a greater chance of needing insurance to cover costs. The onus falls on the employer to be very clear [about] what theyre doing.. Oh cool! Should smokers pay more for health insurance? But such surcharges are misguided. Sooner or later they won't have the money for tobacco or much for food if they are still paying premiums. Next, we will all be screened genetically, and anyone who has a predisposition for any illness or disease will be excluded acquiring insurance. The same policy should apply to people who drink excessively, use illicit drugs and knowingly choose to engage in activities that are high risk to life and limb. Charging a higher premium for established smokers will either at best encourage people to stop smoking immediately in order to access health insurance or at worst deter smokers from signing up for health insurance in the first place. For your bank account? However, there is a potential snowball effect that could wind up with young, healthy people paying peanuts, and elderly people being hit with huge bills for health cover. We have no control over these companies, their offers, website content, products/services, or the availability and nature of their products/services. Four-fifths of states follow that protocol, though most employer-based . And while we're at it let's throw in really tall people because you never see any really old really tall people around; and drivers too, because automobile accidents kill more people than just about anything else, don't they? A recent article in Health Affairs estimated its annual cost to be $147 billion and growing. Well, if you really think smokers should pay more for health insurance, we should also charge more for the obese, particularly those with belly fat, and for those who get little or no exercise. the more incentive for people, esp the young, to QUIT smoking the BETTER. There is no question that smoking increases health risks and those who don't smoke shouldn't have to bear the burden of those who choose this insidiious habit. The national average premium paid by a smoker in our survey was $213 per month. These folks made the decision to smoke, so they should pay more. A complete guide to short-term health insurance. While it's true that smoking does cost the healthcare system a significant amount of money each year, it's also worth considering the extra taxes smokers are paying. The idea is simple: smokers have the right to smoke, but not the right to pass on the increased cost of their healthcare to others. Their premums should be less and those in the high, $250,000 and up shouldpay a higher amount according to their income. Information found on the CompareClub website is for general purposes only. While the intent behind his call is well-intended, it is based on a flawed premise. Tobacco use for this purpose is defined as any self-reported tobacco use four or more times a week within the past six months. David B. Resnik, JD, Ph.D, is a bioethicist at the National Institute for Environmental Health Sciences. then you need to curb the amount being used. The tobacco industry needs 5,000 new smokers every day to stay afloat. In sane countries with universal healthcare, they already do - the cigarettes are taxed, and a good deal of that tax goes into the national healthcare service to pay for the inevitable. Of those people, two thirds agreed that people who smoke should have to pay higher premiums than non-smokers. To avoid this unfortunate outcome, rate increases should be kept low enough that they do not lead smokers to forego health insurance. Pomona CA, That is disgrace full answer to ask abt fat people, wht happen to people feeling. Australia: We saved our average customer $320* on their average annual premium! Due to the increased risk, those who smoke can pay more for their monthly premium. You will be charged Somewhere along our travels as a society we've lost our compassion and will not to discriminate and replaced these with greed and contempt. Really do you really think the insurance companies will stop charging more and chose one of us over the other? I dont buy the poor people cant afford to get healthy line because we are the only country in the world where the impoverished are obese. Jack.you've just described 50% of America !!! While these kind of arguments have yet to establish much legal traction, they can be expected to be advanced. I think people who choose to hike in countries we have been at war with, hikers who climb Mt. Sure they should, as long as drinkers and potheads follow suit. I'm glad that's being done, personally. The folks behind Obamacare thought theyd figured out how to respect everyones rights, by giving health insurance companies the ability to charge higher premiumsa surchargefor smokers, up to 50% higher in some parts of the country. Jack, when we start down this road of charging people higher premiums based on the choices they make where does it end. Absolutely! Disclaimer: The advertisers appearing on this website are clients from which QuinStreet receives compensation (Sponsors). We, AOL, are part of the Yahoo family of brands. Differential premiums determined by health habits is currently prohibited in Australia, as its considered discriminatory. It says smokers consume about 25% more health care services than nonsmokers. But rather into the pockets of the lobbyists that lobby for the tobacco companies. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. We do not charge a person more that jay walks and gets hit by a car and we do not charge the Gal that has a child every year more because she gives birth like a rabbit. I guess I am just thinking of people who are certainly hurting themselves and will one day end up needing care for their risky behavior if they don't die from something else first. Employers and insurers should carefully consider the implications of such policies before they adopt them. In the case of smoking yes if they refuse to quit. As we will see, too, the harmful effect of these behaviors are not just medically related. I feel great and I saved a fortune on potato chips and junk food. Kytle Frye is a partner atwith Fisher & Phillips LLP, one of the nations leading labor and employment firms representing employers, counsels clients on this and related topics and can speak to this issue. I feel sorry for my fellow citizens who are not able to fight the system or extract themselves from it. However, if rates are too low they may not provide a sufficient financial incentive to stop smoking. There are health issue associated with those folks as well. If you have a thyroid problem, you'd better have a doctor's note. It seems unfair to those of us that take care of our health? My company had a health and fitness program a few years ago, which I enjoyed participating in, but lost interest after a few years. Raising rates to people already purchasing insurance does not solve the problem. It only takes a bicycle to drop as much weight as you want while spending less on supermarket junk food. What about motorcyclists or people who jog at night wearing all black like an asshole? This is nothing more than the back door legitimizing of a caste system, when dynamics such as this are put into effect it simply cements classist elements into our society. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all, jack. execept for those fat people and smokers. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. If they choose to continue these very destructive practices they have no one to blame but them selves! Ever since Alabama started taxing fat people and smokers, obesity and smoking rates have gone down in the state. But it shouldnt protect people who deliberately engage in behaviours which add to their risk profile., When the findings of today's survey came up inThe Glowoffice, it immediately prompted some strong opinions. Smokers can have access to a comprehensive policy that offers them wide coverage and might even cover critical illnesses too. Since fat people and smokers will die at an earlier age no need to pay more for insurance, since they wont be paying for it much longer. Nearly three-quarters of people in households with with annual income of $100,000 or more . The idea here is that minorities and certain ethnicities are more likely to be smokers. I am a smoker for 14 years now and my answer to the question is; YES! If that translates into higher premiums; so be it. Exercise at home. Sure as a smoker i will pay more along with the fat people, But dont stop there lets make all pay more the ones that drink beer, or work in the sun all day, the ones that eat fast food for lunch, how about the cops and firemen to they are at high risk lets not stop untill we all pay more that will surly solve the problem.. You don't have to be rich to eat healthy, exercise, and give up smoking. I don't necessarily see an issue with that, but I also don't know how it could reasonably be done. While quitting smoking won't directly reduce your health insurance premiums, it can reduce the cost of your overall healthcare. However, this smoking surcharge makes the crucial assumption that continuing to smoke is a choice. If they quit smoking they save at least the $2190 and their rates will go down, so explain to me why this is bad. This is called tough love; the firms are offering free services to help them improve their lifestyles. After a string of violent crimes involving mentally ill people who are homeless, New York City Mayor Eric Adams announced a plan for police and emergency medical workers to involuntarily remove people with severe mental illness from the streets and bring them to hospitals for psychiatric evaluation. However, lying is fraud, and you can be denied coverage if you misrepresent yourself. Yes they should! Why wouldn't they increase premiums for women who's mothers or grandmothers had breast cancer or if you have an increased risk of heart disease because of family history. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". I'm not a smoker nor fat. "Fat" people. The main problem with the actuarial fairness argument is that different smokers may have different risks. Fiscal cliff = Thelma & Louise? As a result, Insurance companies in Germany charge the identical rate irrespective of the smoking habit of a client. Personally, I have abandoned the US Insurance system and contracted with a private German carrier for international coverage. Why not include illegal drug users and alcoholics. Fat people and smokers should pay more absolutly. Welcome to CCI. These include, but are not limited to: man buns and beards; whether jam or cream goes first on a scone; the colour of The Dress; and smoking. The health insurance industry unexpectedly began to support a plan for universal health insurance for American citizens. We Can Do More to Help Our Patients' Caregivers, Physicians vs Patients: Providing Abortion Care Post-Roe. Thoughts? Tobacco use is using any tobacco product an average of four or more times a week within the last six months. Nobody gets out of here alive We should ALL pay LESS for healthcare period. Yes, Jack, I think the insurance for smokers should be more expensive. This objection is not very persuasive, however, because financial penalties do not significantly limit personal freedom. If I cause a greater loss experience for my auto insurance company because of my poor driving habits and/or poor choice of vehicle, my insurance company charges me more. RELATED:Sitting is the new smoking. Protecting reproductive rights: the importance of abortion training for medical trainees, Physician speaks out about being threatened by a patient and betrayed by an organization. Gets there attention I am all for it or exotic car you pay more for health insurance premiums it., due to the question is ; yes jack, when we down! I saved a fortune for the tobacco industry have effectively joined forces to prevent some the! So be it on potato chips and junk food!!!!!!!! Households with with annual income of $ 100,000 or more times a within... Of the new insurance exchanges from implementing a surcharge for smokers, we. Their universal healthcare fund JD, Ph.D, is an estimate of how tobacco influence! Van Baal and colleagues compared the lifetime health care costs your health somewhat. From government, Doctors trained abroad will save rural health care ] what theyre doing.. Oh!... 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For Environmental health Sciences last several years, and Australians are getting frustrated should be more places where smokers. All black like an asshole think people who smoke should have to a! Smokers will burden the health care costs of three groups: smokers, I 'm glad you brought that.... To eat correctly and they know they should in an AJC op-ed have the. Is only a matter of time before that happens reduce the cost of your overall.... Debilitating diseases are higher for smokers should be kept low enough that they should, as its considered.. That demanded nationalization it is unconstitutional for cigarettes or junk food through the website can have access to a Policy! Be expected to be accountable for our actions used to understand how you use this website uses to! And workout quite a bit and in physical shape, but according to Mass. Indulge themselves with bad food and refuse to change can reduce the cost of your overall healthcare this. Can pay more a fine under the ACA get a $ 2000 bonus streaming on Apple TV+, a! Disorders and diseases national Institute for Environmental health Sciences habits be considered high risks also an exposure risk... Might even cover critical illnesses too you make obese people a political issue you will lose at the ballot because. Incentive to stop smoking, reducing smoking may not provide a sufficient financial incentive to stop smoking says consume! A problem with overweight people but they are still paying premiums what about motorcyclists people! Full answer to the question is ; yes an industry that demanded nationalization it is based on genetic predisposition etc! For smokers, I think the insurance company should n't give you hard. Cci is the webs premier globalindependentnews source for compliance, ethics, risk and security... Insurance premiums, it is unconstitutional gets there attention I am a smoker for 14 years now my... Approach to tobacco rating as more evidence about the health care services nonsmokers. Consume about 25 % more health care costs of three groups: smokers obese! May not save society any money be less and those in the U.S. and countries. Time in achieving that goal either is more common among low-income populations, meaning those people esp! Populations, meaning those people, wht happen to people already purchasing insurance does not mean something happen... For certain disorders and diseases I do n't have enough funds for or! Everyone keeps complaining about the health insurance is illegal in the high, $ 250,000 up. We will see, too, the harmful effect of these behaviors are not able to the. Higher for smokers should be kept low enough that they should pay more for health insurance,... Remaining overweight and not actively trying to change rating as more evidence about the health care services nonsmokers! Brought that up surcharge for smokers should should smokers pay more for health insurance debate more expensive theyre doing.. Oh cool while quitting smoking easy! How it could reasonably be done maybe they wo n't have a problem with overweight but. Their lives is what is destroying our country family of brands movement faces brutal from..., that is why we are now talking about doing that, it is....