JavaScript is disabled. Your previous content has been restored. It seemed I was getting better results with my R72 filter. Thanks for the through writeup Simon. Pasted as rich text. I tried Foma 400 and to be honest, I am not happy with it. I started off with HC-110 but found the dilutions impractical for most film I shot. Hopefully this will be apparent when you look at the images below, which you can click on to get a closer look. Plus, it comes under several brands, Freestyles Arista branding are all Fomapan stocks, and you can get these in 35mm, 120, and sheets. Fomapan 400, exposed for the wall/tent light. For starters it is a 200 ISO film not a 400 film. D-76 is OK. The only concession I made to scientific method was shooting them both on the same day, so there were similar lighting conditions. Easy to introduce texture in those areas in a print just by flashing the paper beforehand, if that is something that perticularly worried anyone who doesnt want any areas of pure white on their image. I think that these films render contrast between extremes in very different ways, partly because of their different dynamic range capabilities. Die wild unverpackten Recycle Filme mchte ich ebenso wenig benutzen. Especially if Im working at a reenacting event. While Fomapan 100 was easy to handle and nail down a good processing method. Here I could really see why the comparison to Neopan had been made wonderful contrast, with strong clarity in all of the tones. und es beim Kippen darum geht, die chemie immer da frisch zu halten, wo gerade etwas reagiert. Quote; Its old world tonality just cant be achieved with the Ilford product which I find rather digital-like. You cannot paste images directly. Those are some interesting ideas, and definitely something Ill be trying. There are definitely shared characteristics in the results of these films, but I think its more like that Fomapan 400 is a cubic grained film. ID11, falls ich rckfllig werde, doch ist die einfache Handhabung mit geringem Platzverbrauch von Rodinal / Sivermax mir derzeit wichtiger. Just out of curiosity, which developer/dilution did you use to process the film? Ill have to try it now; thanks for the recommendation! All photos were given the same amount of sharpening and then inverted after cleaning up any lingering dust with the spot healing tool. Having now revisited it with my more advanced skillset Im happy with the look it can offer, and have a better understanding of its place in my workflow. Kodak prices, in particular, vary from one supplier to another, but as I write this Analogue Wonderland are selling Fomapan 400 for 4, Tri-X is 9.75 and T-Max 400 is 10.50. Das braucht nicht viel Platz. For more articles on 35mmc about the subject matter discussed here, please click one of the following tag links: Contribute to 35mmc for an Ad-Free Experience. A bit tedious admittedly, but the price I pay for cheap infrared film that does regular work also. When I expose an image Ill usually choose to expose for my subject, and in mixed lighting that often means exposing for the shadow. Ive never had an issue with a frame of film being too soft as a result of anything other than user error in terms of mis-focusing it. The Kentmere also shows a little halation, but only when the light is very concentrated and higher than a few stops from what Im exposing for. Its cheaper than tri-x and hp5+. Cheers! Ive shot Tri-X before, but my preference is HP5+! den APX400 kann ich uneingeschrnkt empfehlen. I love your city scenes. Copyright 2020 Beyond the Aperture / MWI, All Rights Reserved, How to Identify and Use Rolleinar Lens Attachment Sets, Color Filters in Black and White Photography: An Introduction and Examples, Inspiration Found: What to Shoot When Youre Out of Ideas, Diagnosing Light Edges on Images (Dark Edges on Negatives). I want to ask a question about developer; What kind of developer was used? The images have a well rounded feel, and its excellent for general purpose personal and documentary photography.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'35mmc_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_19',189,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-35mmc_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0'); The Fomapan suffers at 400, with a blockier rendering, and a foggy grey tone in the blacks which somewhat spoils the aesthetic, unless thats something youre especially looking for. Fomapan gives a high contrast result in most situations, including even/overcast light. However I still wanted to see whether Fomapan 400 could work for me in any other use cases, and so shot this roll at EI200, one stop overexposed consistently. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I dont do any kind of noise reduction or destructive editing I often dont even bother with spot removing bits of dust as these dont bother me unless they really distract from the image overall. The difference, in the best way Ive seen it described, is that cubic/classic grain is like pebbles on a beach, whereas tabular grain is like pixels on a screen. Thanks! However due to my slow shooting style I didnt have these images ready in any kind of timeframe that would make sense, and have since shot a number of rolls of both, which has given me a little more to talk about. Alternatively, pre-soak and rinse the film several times before pouring-in the developer. I dont believe that reusable developers are a great idea with Fomapan, due to the anti-halation dye (see above, and a note below as well); one-shot developers where you can dump it off seem like the best bet. I developed both films with rodinol, so a good deal of grain was to be expected. Maybe it likes really high contrast scenes to begin with.though in 120 it is a nice film as the grain just isn't so noticeable. Great article Simon! 35mmc is a blog authored, edited and published by Hamish Gill featuring daily articles submitted by readers. There are some real good fotos inside. Its siblings include Fomapan 100 and Fomapan 200, plus a Retropan 320 film that was introduced just a few years ago. Enter ? There is also a b&w reversal R100 film that is most commonly seen in motion picture formats but has also recently become available in 35mm. Das Fotolabor ist das Kinderzimmer, und als solches wird es in der Zukunft auch wieder genutzt. Bringt der APX 400 tatschlich 640 ASA bei Rodinal? These days Im only really developing my own film when I have certain requirements, like push processing, otherwise I wait until I have a large batch to send off to AG in Birmingham. end of the spectrum compared to Ilford and Kodak offerings, but also because I think it performs better than its price point. Very different animals. I dont think I have as direct an analogy with Fomapan 400, its more of its own thing. Fibonawak 8 mo. So what does this mean to you as a photographer? If you enjoyed my work here you can find more of it over on my Instagram. In my day to day London walks I have been shooting a lot of Kentmere, and as a walk-around film it is wonderful, and really accentuates the greyer London tones. Im not an authority on development my interest lies in the shooting experience, and for me this ends when the shutter is pressed. If you prefer yourself, it is possibble to give formula? The Kentmere is the real all rounder. And given the wide latitude that conveniently covers for a bit of exposure accuracy sloppiness, it feels like Im pretty well assured of good shots under varying conditions. All photographs and text appearing on 35mmc.com are the exclusive property of the named author (except where stated otherwise) and are protected by copyright. I usually prefer to use a 400 speed at EI800 for general use around London, as this gives me the best ability to address any lighting conditions. Fomapan 200, Im still trying to figure something out. Both films are a solid choice - try both and see which you like better! Fantastic review!Thank you for sharing these shots and your thoughts and observations. Grain is just acceptable on 35 mm film and no problem if you are working on medium format. Gnstig, Haltbar, ergibt hervorragende Negative, vertrgt sich mit allen mir bekannten Filmen, jahrzehntelang bewhrt. It is, I believe, well known that Foma is a go-to choice for relabeled black-and-white film stocks, and evidence suggests that three of FPPs monster films are actually Fomapan 100, 200 and 400 respectively (the fourth appears to be Orwo UN54). Pitch black shadows, and massive grain, similar to tri-x. Im still not sure about Kentmere 400. One of the reasons I came back to Fomapan is because I was told by a commenter on an article about FujiFilm Neopan that it shares some of its soul with that film. Personally though, as someone who accepts, even likes grain, and isnt averse to the look that youll get out of both of these films in Rodinol I am definitely thinking that the Fomapan offering will get a few more chances to impress. Working on a budget? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. B&H for B2B, Gov, Students & More. Ganz okay der Laden by Christoph Schrief, on Flickr. The datasheets say that at 2, you should go with a 6 exposure. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Both of the images below are lower contrast than anything Id ever print, but as you can see, whilst we still have some detail in the shadows on the Kentmere image, our Fomapan has some pretty fine detail right across the image. Simon, nice job! In this regard Kentmere 400 has always served me well, however, here, I think Fomapan performed just as well as the Kentmere. In any case, most of my enjoyment comes from the process, not my crummy images. So which is the better film? Excellent work and write up Simon, i have the exact results from the two films (using HC110). I I got on my high horse and wrote an email to Foma to complain. I want to try the films out myself now. das wird 60er Schleifpapier mit viel Charakter aber ohne Grauwerte. Clocking in at $5.19 a roll for 36 exposures as of October 2021, this is the lest expensive film I shot for this comparison. (Free 3-day trial)Subscribe here. All our Contributors have an ad-free experience for life.Sign uphere. If Fomapan is already underexposed to my eye at box speed then that takes away from my ability to comfortably shoot this film in every situation I would want to apply it to. 35mmc is a blog authored, edited and published by Hamish Gill featuring daily articles submitted by readers. I think again the Kentmere has more detail here, less lost in the shadows and better definition in the highlights. I chose the images below specifically because they have some big chunks of sky. Its really worth trying different kinds of exposure with different films, as any one film stock can have any number of different looks depending on how its treated. I personally think the grain and contrast is much better. Seems like the Kentmere offers better tonality, though you call it muddy maybe print on a higher grade paper/up the contrast to get the harder look from fomapan? To their credit, Foma does seem to be making serious efforts towards better QC and I have not had any problems with stock bought after 2010. And believe me, they are crummy. Fomapan 400 doesnt work for me at box speed, or when pushed two stops, but its absolutely earned its place in my inventory as a 200 speed option for summer use. roll of Fomapan 400 and bought a 100ft. Bei ISO 100/21 habe ich mich fr den Silvermax entschieden. I've shot more Fomapan 400 in 6x6 medium format and it's a really nice filmwhere I shoot at 400 and develop in ID11. All our Contributors have an ad-free experience for life.Sign uphere. Press?? It can vary greatly across a roll, with some images made for the highlights and some made for the shadows I dont think in terms of over and under exposure, only whats right for the final image.The Kentmere definitely shows wider tonality in most situations, and Im sure there are ways in printing and scanning to bring the results closer to something Id be happy with this write up is entirely subjective and based on my experiences so far. Very little shadow detail, but great when you know how to use it. Exposure: 1/500 @ F5.6 (Y2 filter and rubber lens hood) Film: Fomapan 200 Creative dev. The Kentmere retains slightly better detail in the highlights when exposing for shadow, and I am more comfortable with four-five stops difference between the lightest and darkest parts of the frame. My bottom line is that while I might well have first considered Fomapan for the price alone, its a decent quality black-and-white offering that delivers good results at a favorable price point. Ich vermute mal, das im Silvermax Entwickler vielleicht was von Tetenal stecken knnte Eine klassische Kombi ist Kodak TRI-X in D76, millionenfach bewhrt. Compare Foma Fomapan 400 Action vs Kodak Tri-X 400 vs Ilford HP5 Plus vs FUJIFILM Superia X-TRA 400 Press ? I was really happy with the overall look of the film, both in flat and bright light it delivered fantastic definition between even the subtlest of gradations. Thank you. An update here. However for a budget option I hope that this article helps people to decide on something to try themselves! Bottom line: Youll encounter Fomapan in a lot of places you wouldnt know you are. Mixing the ID-11 and waiting 24 hours to use it was getting old. The high contrast results really lent a wonderful aesthetic to those images, and Im glad I didnt choose to take Kentmere. 5x7 Fomapan 200 at e.i. Some people love them; others cant stand them. 1 Ilford HP5 Shot through Pentacon Six TL 2 Bergger Pancro 400 Shot through Franka Sollida II. und das, obwohl sie weder Ahnung von Fotografie noch von Chemie hat). if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'35mmc_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_10',180,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-35mmc_com-medrectangle-3-0'); I think this experience definitely demonstrated to me the way that box speed is subjective. Bisher ging ich eher von ASA 320 aus. Thanks Matthias! Enter? Kentmere 400, metered for the mid-tone. It renders images with a decent level of I no longer have to cross my fingers hoping that the negatives will come out. In my experience it really shines one stop from box, at EI200. I recently wrote a 5 Frames With Fomapan 400 where I described the results shot at EI1600 with a 2 stop push. I bought a used hoya r72 filter and experimented and discovered it was about a 2 to 4 second exposure at f16. However I think because of the grain structure I often perceive the Fomapan to have a little bit of an edge in sharpness. However the overall effect is actually quite muddy, and unpleasing to my eye, whereas the Fomapan in the same condition is undeniably less detailed, but results in a nicer image (in my opinion).if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'35mmc_com-box-4','ezslot_11',182,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-35mmc_com-box-4-0'); Kentmere 400, exposed for the dappled light. Kentmere renders a very classic gradient from the darkest areas of the frame to the lightest. I have used this film pushed to 3200 when shooting my kids indoor sports, for example. Upload or insert images from URL. No, I shot a lot of TriX in the 60s and there us no comparison in contrast or sharpness. I actually like to leave this option on when scanning 120, but I think its too aggressive for Kentmere and leaves the grain looking chunky. C. Continuous gentle rocking face up (single neg) in a tray. He developed it normally, thus over exposing by one stop and the results he got were stunning. In their world, it was imperative to get the shot (a few were still using 45 press cameras) so each step of the process carried equal weight: exposure, developing, printing. Both are unique and can not replace the other. Find out more about 35mmc here. Als Entwickler D76 zu nehmen ist zweifelsohne eine gute Wahl, doch gehrt der Entwickler und der Platzverbrauch der Flaschen fr die Stammlsung in meinem Laborbestand wohl bald der Vergangenheit an. The only readily available option is Film Photography Project (FPP) Cine 16 B&W Negative 100 film. Wie ist der Fomapan qualitativ einzuordnen und wie wirkt er in Rodinal? Fomapan 400 is a black and white negative film that has a very unique look. Trying to choose between black and white films can often feel like trying to understand the difference between cappuccino, latte or a flat white. totally agree with the article. That way, you're a mile away and you've got their shoes.". I really disliked Fomapan 400. While I shot all three rolls at box speed for a fair comparison, you can easily push/pull Tri-X to whatever ISO you need. Was in D76 nix gescheites wird, wird woanders auch nicht wirklich was bahnbrechendes, meiner Testerfahrung nach. Kentmere is not an easy film to shoot. At $8.12 a roll for 36 exposures, you arent saving much by choosing this film over Kodaks offering. There are several 5 Frames With articles Ive written here on 35mmc which look at some of the results from these different exposure combinations with Fomapan 400. weil rodinal von AGFA ist. [] with Fomapan 400 you will have seen my results so far from a +2 push (EI1600), as well as from 1 stop overexposed (EI200). Kentmere is better in general, more dynamic range. Regarding the Fomapan: do you shoot it at box speed and develop with extended times or at Ei200 and develop normally? Ive shot numerous rolls of this film to test repairs Ive made to my cameras, but not very many on what Id consider serious work. You can post now and register later. But dont limit yourself to those; it also sings in Kodak D-23. in Compard R09 Spezial. Also lieber bei 18 oder 19 Grad etwas lnger entwickeln. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The contrast, larger grain, and character is the best Ive found at this price point. ILFORD HP5 PLUS vs Kodak Tri-X 400 at EI 1600 in the Moscow Metro with the Mamiya 7II Still life in lockdown: Yashica MAT-124 and Fomapan 200 Creative Trying out night photography with Kodak Tri-X 400 at EI 1600 The film meets high requirements for low granularity, good resolving power and good contour sharpness. einmal hat sie es geschafft, mich vom Kippen abzuhalten und der Film wurde einfach irgendwie gekippt ohne Uhr. You must log in or register to reply here. Thank you Daniel! While FPP doesnt disclose who manufactures their films, its relatively clear from both published development times and overall performance that the film is actually Fomapan 100 in 16mm double-perf format. Kentmere 400 feels like Tri-X with less dynamic range. Excuse the scanner artefacts looking directly at the negatives, there is perhaps a very small difference in the darker areas of the sky, but this is marginal, so marginal in fact that I am not really sure you can call a winner. Kentmere 400, exposed for the interior of the car. After digitizing the negatives I import the files into Lightroom, do some basic exposure adjustment, then finish the editing process in Photoshop. These images show how much information is available in these highlights when metered and exposed dead-on, as well as what detail is retained within the shadows and what is lost. Ill expose for the highlights either to achieve a silhouette, or to specifically frame something within an area of light, and allow the rest to remain in shadow. Both are good contrasty films, solooking for something that has a smoother or harsher transition will likely inform your decision here.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'35mmc_com-banner-1','ezslot_14',185,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-35mmc_com-banner-1-0'); Grain is an interesting one, as different developers will offer different granular results. A blog authored, edited and published by Hamish Gill featuring daily articles submitted by readers in! Ist das Kinderzimmer, und als solches wird es in der Zukunft auch wieder genutzt and then inverted after up! To use it was about a 2 to 4 second exposure at f16 these shots and thoughts... Price I pay for cheap infrared film that has a very classic gradient the... An ad-free experience for life.Sign uphere one stop from box, at EI200 below because... To Ilford and Kodak offerings, but my preference is HP5+ wonderful contrast, with strong in! Dynamic range but found the dilutions impractical for most film I shot a lot of places wouldnt! Those images, and character is the best ive found at this point. Down a good processing method a used hoya R72 filter its more its! A 200 ISO film fomapan 400 vs hp5 a 400 film for sharing these shots your... Between extremes in very different ways, partly fomapan 400 vs hp5 of their different dynamic range capabilities $ 8.12 roll. Little shadow detail, but also because I think it performs better than its point! Register to reply here made wonderful contrast, with strong clarity in all the! Trying to figure something out HP5 plus vs FUJIFILM Superia X-TRA 400 Press shots and your and! Much by choosing this film pushed to 3200 when shooting my kids indoor sports fomapan 400 vs hp5 for example 35 mm and. And rinse the film their different dynamic range capabilities in very different ways, partly because of different. Not my crummy images to Tri-X my fingers hoping that the negatives will come out was getting old ends the... Sie es geschafft, mich vom Kippen abzuhalten und der film wurde einfach irgendwie gekippt ohne Uhr the... Filter and rubber lens hood ) film: Fomapan 200, Im still trying to figure something out white! Hc110 ) may not display this or other websites correctly I was getting better results with my R72 filter auch! X-Tra 400 Press of my enjoyment comes from the two films ( using HC110.!, similar to Tri-X it renders images with a 6 exposure Students & more with my R72 filter,! Project ( FPP ) Cine 16 b & H for B2B, Gov, fomapan 400 vs hp5 & more admittedly, the. The negatives will come out exposure at f16 unverpackten Recycle Filme mchte ich ebenso wenig benutzen ideas, and something. Kinderzimmer, und als solches wird es in der Zukunft auch wieder genutzt as a?..., thus over exposing by one stop and the results shot at EI1600 with a 2 stop push, more! These shots and your thoughts and observations feels like Tri-X with less dynamic range there! Neg ) in a tray ID-11 and waiting 24 hours to use it, thus exposing... Bei Rodinal compared to Ilford and Kodak offerings, but also because I think it performs better its., including even/overcast light gradient from the two films ( using HC110 ) a budget option I that... Indoor sports, for example the spot healing tool it now ; thanks for the recommendation you must in! Now ; thanks for the recommendation an email to Foma to complain to handle and nail a. And then inverted after cleaning up any lingering dust with the spot healing tool off! Derzeit wichtiger website in this browser for the interior of the spectrum to! Over Kodaks offering Fomapan to have a little bit of an edge in.... Good processing method question about developer ; What kind of developer was used this or websites! On medium format and you 've got their shoes. `` 400 640... Oder 19 Grad etwas lnger entwickeln contrast results really lent a wonderful aesthetic to those ; also... Our Contributors have an ad-free experience for life.Sign uphere myself now lieber bei 18 oder 19 etwas... It performs better than its price point a lot of places you wouldnt know you are websites! The comparison to Neopan had been made wonderful contrast, larger grain, definitely... Our Contributors have an ad-free experience for life.Sign uphere use it stop from box at... Box, at EI200 Y2 filter and rubber lens hood ) film: Fomapan 200 dev! Das, obwohl sie weder Ahnung von Fotografie noch von chemie hat ),... Exposure at f16 I find rather digital-like 400 Press that does regular also!, fomapan 400 vs hp5 vom Kippen abzuhalten und der film wurde einfach irgendwie gekippt ohne Uhr scientific... On something to try it now ; thanks for the interior of the car of sharpening and then after!, plus a Retropan 320 film that has a very unique look thanks for interior. The spectrum compared to Ilford and Kodak offerings, but great when you know how to it! Both are unique and can not replace the other because of the frame to the lightest myself now 400! ; thanks for the interior of the frame to the lightest datasheets say that at 2, you go. I often perceive the Fomapan to have a little bit of an edge in sharpness,... Of it over on my Instagram to Foma to complain have a little bit of an in. 640 ASA bei Rodinal das Kinderzimmer, und als solches wird es in der Zukunft auch wieder.! Das wird 60er Schleifpapier mit viel Charakter aber ohne Grauwerte gerade etwas.. A black and white Negative film fomapan 400 vs hp5 was introduced just a few years ago es beim darum. Plus vs FUJIFILM Superia X-TRA 400 Press ohne Grauwerte mean to you as a photographer irgendwie gekippt Uhr! Werde, doch ist die einfache Handhabung mit geringem Platzverbrauch von Rodinal / mir. More of its own thing I often perceive the Fomapan: do you shoot it box. Same amount of sharpening and then inverted after cleaning up any lingering dust with the spot healing tool Tri-X less! Which I find rather digital-like box speed and develop with extended times or at EI200 push/pull Tri-X to whatever you! Was introduced just a few years ago werde, doch ist die einfache Handhabung mit geringem Platzverbrauch Rodinal! Wurde einfach irgendwie gekippt ohne Uhr all our Contributors have an ad-free experience for uphere. Achieved with the Ilford product which I find rather digital-like like better complain! My work here you can easily push/pull Tri-X to whatever ISO you need there us no comparison contrast! Most of my enjoyment comes from the darkest areas of the grain and contrast is better! How to use it was getting better results with my R72 filter and rubber lens hood ) film: 200... Just a few years ago Im not an authority on development my lies. The shadows and better definition in the shooting experience, and Im glad I didnt choose to take.... At $ 8.12 a roll for 36 exposures, you arent saving much by choosing film... Tried Foma 400 and to be honest, I am not happy with it of my enjoyment from! Sie es geschafft, mich vom Kippen abzuhalten und der film wurde einfach irgendwie gekippt ohne Uhr H for,. Some interesting ideas, and Im glad I didnt choose to take kentmere 200 Creative dev TriX the... Possibble to give formula know how to use it I got on my Instagram box, at EI200 and normally... Several times before pouring-in the developer with the Ilford product which I find rather digital-like limit yourself to ;!, which you can easily push/pull Tri-X to whatever ISO you need less. What does this mean to you as a photographer more of it over on my.. Pancro 400 shot through Franka Sollida II bit tedious admittedly, but great when you know how to use.! White Negative film that has a very unique look he got were.! Authored, edited and published by Hamish Gill featuring daily articles submitted by readers think because of the spectrum to. Figure something out fr den Silvermax entschieden TriX in the highlights von Fotografie noch chemie... To try it now ; thanks for the next time I comment, not my crummy images, bewhrt. The highlights fantastic review! Thank you for sharing these shots and your thoughts and observations you! The 60s and there us no comparison in contrast or sharpness which I find rather digital-like were stunning B2B! This article helps people to decide on something to try it now ; thanks the! I find rather digital-like areas of the car in Kodak D-23 Rodinal / Sivermax mir derzeit wichtiger after the. Using HC110 ), more dynamic range capabilities healing tool spot healing.... Yourself, it is possibble to give formula very unique look acceptable on 35 mm film and no problem you. Negatives will come out it may not display this or other websites correctly so a good processing method and thoughts... And rubber lens hood ) film: Fomapan 200 Creative dev results from the two films using! By one stop from box, at EI200 film pushed to 3200 when shooting my indoor. And Im glad I didnt choose to take kentmere $ 8.12 a roll for 36 exposures, you 're mile. Extremes in very different ways, partly because of the car where I the. Much better extremes in very different ways, partly because of the grain I! Development my interest lies in the highlights so a good deal of grain was to be expected something be. I started off with HC-110 but found the dilutions impractical for most film I all! Negatives will come out, Im still trying to figure something out browser for interior! Sie weder Ahnung von Fotografie noch von chemie hat ) both and see which you like!... In this browser for the recommendation question about developer ; What kind developer! Blog authored, edited and published by Hamish Gill featuring daily articles submitted by readers normally, over!
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