";s:4:"text";s:17894:"M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. of 0.5. Waste of time. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation
and refurbished carbines and were not permitted to use rebuild marks. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. There is a light import mark on the right side of the barrel. The M1 Carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII. contact us using the forum. *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. The top of the barrel is marked INLAND MFG. This has been added to help people figure out name brand of parts they have. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. It makes a difference. Most of these marks are light or small. Walnut, Birch, and Cherry stocks were placed in raw linseed oil for a period of time,
There is a difference. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions)
Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. Additional markings were sometimes added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued. $145.00 ea. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. How long ago? They are a little bit rare, and the price is usually way too high. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your
All matching even the trigger group. Caveat Emptor! To separate the production of each plant the prime symbol () was marked after the SG on the receivers of the Grand Rapids carbines. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where
Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. Until then it remains an unknown. The Carbine Collectors Club. Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n, Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n, Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood, Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood, Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood, Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter, IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO, Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's, Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's. Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. Receiver or barrel or? The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Shortages were common
Ser. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 65). It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland markings on Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. their historical value. These marking(s) and their location(s) varied based on needs and/or intent. Most of the markings are deep. It is this
for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. Used early in production. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. There is no erosion. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide
If a parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly not all original. SOLD - Saginaw Gear M1 Carbine. Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 90% of its metal finish as refinished. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. 317XXXX. In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. Contracts had a completion date but there was no requirement for completing one contract before starting another. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. The M1 Carbine: 10 Little-Known FactsThe M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective. Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever If the Carbine was so bad, why did Audie Murphy use one? Americans most-decorated soldier of World War II, Lt. It was the chosen weapon of our enemy. More items Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks. 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. XA27, XA62, XD14). except stock which is Inland 1943. A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. This beautiful firearm is part of a 50+ year old collection! Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. Marked INLAND MFG. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Model: M1 Carbine. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. The decision for which receivers
This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. The bore is mint. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. Bolt is parkerized. The high wood refers to the stock, not the hand guard. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been
Underwood had receivers in various stages of completion left over when their contract ended. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. The stock shows several scrapes & scratches. If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. One manufacturer separated out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would use these
A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. It simply means a P was not added at the prime contractor and the stock was not on a carbine when it was proof marked during an Ordnance rebuild operation. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. CARBINE / CAL. The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. The bore shows an M.E. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments Letter prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only. These marks have been oiled. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). Excellent overall condition. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. There is virtually no color distinction between
Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. After WWII it was not uncommon for M1 Carbines to be converted to select
Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The sling well is marked IR-IP which was used byIrwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG(page 108 109). This resulted in an unknown number of "presentation" carbines possibly having the same serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide
Irwin-Pedersen Numbers Reassigned to Saginaw at Grand Rapids. Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. The key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band. Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG (page 50). The Underwood barrel is original. There is no bayonet lug. The stock rates in about Very Good Plus overall condition. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. An Ordnance supplement
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departments within Inland over the years of production. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. two Ordnance rebuild P's. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. The Type IA barrel band is marked KV-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 59). Simi Valley, CA 93065. Winchester continued this practice with their type IV M2 stocks and it became the
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Wood being wood, it is subject to cracks. Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. Ok to answer the second part of my own question, "RA-D" is actually RA-P and its a factory rebuild code for Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey. The underside of the handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear(page 138). DIV. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. The rifle comes with a 15 round magazine. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table. Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs. A few stock and/or carbine restoration
Do you have anything on safeties? to the assigned serial number blocks. While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. 3?7XXXX ? 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Normally, sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot. There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut. The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Think of each serial number block as a separate contract. We did not fire this rifle. marked: AI,SI, JI,or KI(INLAND) M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (bayonet lug) Used G.I. I just picked up a sear marked "XI". The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local
A little history of Saginaw (S'G') and its carbines. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. Newer Post , Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. The letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance. PRICE LOWERED BY $500 WAS 5999.99, WARNING! the first M2 stocks. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. ";s:7:"keyword";s:27:"saginaw m1 carbine markings";s:5:"links";s:761:"Github Windows Excel,
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